tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post113702286761315284..comments2024-03-18T00:41:13.588-07:00Comments on Sergio Leone and the Infield Fly Rule: THE GLORIOUS EXCESS OF SHOWGIRLSDennis Cozzaliohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01954848938471883431noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1162281090603514982006-10-30T23:51:00.000-08:002006-10-30T23:51:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137577250693345652006-01-18T01:40:00.000-08:002006-01-18T01:40:00.000-08:00Dennis, definietly keep me informed if you're goin...Dennis, definietly keep me informed if you're going to be visiting the Bay Area. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure my writing really got across the fact that I really had no expectation or even desire to stop the screen-yelling activities of my fellow Midnight Mass attendees. I find it fun to occasionally see a film that way, with an overly raucous crowd, and though I usually prefer that the film is one I've seen before so I can form my reaction on my own first, in this case I really didn't mind, and in fact was enjoying it. I also knew that to truly evaluate the film I'd need to see it again and was glad to finally find an excuse. But when I yelled my own comment, I did it in such a caracatured voice and at such an inopportune moment that I doubt anyone thought I seriously wanted the audience to calm down.Brian Darrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693169310367670898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137559201300785542006-01-17T20:40:00.000-08:002006-01-17T20:40:00.000-08:00Dennis, Yeah! Let's catch up on this one, along wi...Dennis, Yeah! Let's catch up on this one, along with "Hollywood Boulevard," during our next mad weekend, be it north or south. All this talk has got me very curious to see it. In fact, I'd venture out to rent it tonight, if I weren't locked into work 16 hrs a day right now. Sigh...Nomi awaits, god help me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137538825673738982006-01-17T15:00:00.000-08:002006-01-17T15:00:00.000-08:00Thanks, Brian. And like I said before on your site...Thanks, Brian. And like I said before on your site, I really appreciated your digging into, and making clearer to me, the rape scene, which is the moment I found most troubling, both thematically and as narrrative. Your thoughts, and the thoughts that ensued in your comments section, definitely helped define that moment for me not as a lapse, but a necessary (although no less unpleasant, and thank God for that) explication of some thematic strands percolating within this movie, which has really stuck with me over the last week. And I had no trouble, by the way, identifying with your impulse to tell the Midnight Movie crowd to shut the hell up and watch the movie. I didn't see <I>Showgirls</I> in this situation, but even if I wouldn't have liked the movie I would have at least appreciated the opportunity to come to that conclusion without all the "RockyHorror-ification" ringing in my ears. Over this past week too I've had some interesting conversations with people who think I've fallen off the common sense wagon because of my reaction to the movie. But that's okay. That's what keeps one honest, I think, and I appreciate those conversations too. But I appreciate our little <I>Showgirls</I> Blog Day experiment even more, because I feel like I've gotten to know some really good writers, yourself included, in a unique and relatively rapid way. And I'm glad you liked the Taylor piece too. I have a feeling that's gonna be a key article for me in my continuing development as a writer about film. As for <I>Flashdance</I>, I did encounter that one again recently, and I'm with you-- I'll take Nomi in full showgirl regalia over Jennifer Beals and her artfully splashed buckets of water any day. <BR/><BR/>It seems I haven't posted much since <I>Showgirls</I> day-- Did the experience take <I>that</I> much out of me? Whether it did or didn't, I hope to finally have a top ten posted in the next day or so, and a piece on Altman and his upcoming Oscar, so I hope you'll check back in. Oh, and no plans to get back to the Bay Area just yet, but I'll defintiely keep you updated!Dennis Cozzaliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954848938471883431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137537546832143022006-01-17T14:39:00.000-08:002006-01-17T14:39:00.000-08:00Dennis, just wanted to say that your piece was def...Dennis, just wanted to say that your piece was definitely one of my very favorites from lat week's <I>Showgirls</I> Blog Day. I also wanted to thank you for linking to a more substantial Charles Taylor review than the one I'd previously read. His enthusiasm for the film is totally infectious. <BR/><BR/>Last night I watched <I>Flashdance</I> for the first time, believe it or not. It's a big nothing of a film, especially when compared to <I>Showgirls</I>.Brian Darrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17693169310367670898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137323610158880532006-01-15T03:13:00.000-08:002006-01-15T03:13:00.000-08:00Holland was proud when that happened and, in retro...Holland was proud when that happened and, in retrospect, it made us appreciate his Dutch career even more. (DE VIERDE MAN/THE FOURTH MAN is my favorite; TURKS FRUIT/TURKISH DELIGHT and SOLDAAT VAN ORANJE/SOLDIER OF ORANGE are both wonderful; I wouldn't exactly recommend SPETTERS) It wasn't until HOLLOW MAN that some of us started to get really annoyed by the obvious Hollywood restrictions Verhoeven had to put up with.<BR/><BR/>Luckily for us - and for filmlovers all over the word, I hope - Verhoeven decided to move back and team up with his old screenwriting partner Gerard Soeteman. At the moment, he probably just finished shooting WWII drama ZWARTBOEK/BLACKBOOK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137141109474453052006-01-13T00:31:00.000-08:002006-01-13T00:31:00.000-08:00PSaga: The Oregonian! Where I come from (with apol...PSaga: <I>The Oregonian</I>! Where I come from (with apologies to Mssr. Waits), <I>that's</I> the big time! Black gold! Texas tea! (Oh, and you really should see this movie!)<BR/><BR/>Peet: Thanks for the Dutch perspective. What was the feeling over there when Verhoeven made the move to commercial "American" movies? (I say "American," because isn't his financing usually pretty polynational?)<BR/><BR/>Blaaagh: I think we need to rent this one and run it on a double feature with Joe Dante and Allan Arkush's <I>Hollywood Boulevard</I> when next we meet. We never did see <I>HB</I> together over Halloween, and now I think we've got its perfect satirical companion piece. Some see a division between the anarchic, subversive satire of <I>Starship Troopers</I> and the relative humanism (it doesn't sound so strange after you've done a complete turnaround on the movie like I just did) of <I>Showgirls</I>, but I think if you're prone to appreciate what Verhoeven has cooking in <I>Starship</I>, you might be able to see <I>Showgirls</I> for what it is too. And you liked <I>Basic Instinct</I>, didn't you? Maybe it's time for me to take another look at <I>that</I> movie... because, as you know, Catherine Trammell... is the <I>devil</I>.Dennis Cozzaliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954848938471883431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137116370973103762006-01-12T17:39:00.000-08:002006-01-12T17:39:00.000-08:00Thanks, everyone, for the kind words and for the i...Thanks, everyone, for the kind words and for the indulgence. Believe me, when I set out on this little journey Monday night, I really didn’t expect it would have this result, or that so many of us would jump into the challenge so enthusiastically. As <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/d5o9x" REL="nofollow">Nilblogette</A>, I, and a few others have already expressed on various comments boards along the <I>Showgirls</I> network, <I>Showgirls</I> Blog Day was, without a doubt, the most fun I’ve had in my short history as a blogger. Sincere thanks to <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/a82o7" REL="nofollow">Girish</A> for proposing the idea in the first place, and to <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/8nxmu" REL="nofollow">Brian</A> and <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/bvtjp" REL="nofollow">Flickhead</A><BR/>for getting me involved. And I really encourage everyone to travel over to <I>Flickhead</I> and <I>Girish</I>, where you’ll find a long list of links that will take you to <I>Showgirls</I> pieces that I guarantee you will find most worthwhile. In particular, check out the <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/alp2p" REL="nofollow">two</A> entries by <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/dhjek" REL="nofollow">Eric</A>, <A HREF="http://tinyurl.com/9t7zk" REL="nofollow">Zach Campbell's</A> letter to Elizabeth Berkley, as well as the terrific work contributed by Flickhead, Girish, Brian and all the others. If there’s another movie that would lend itself as perfectly to another round of festival blogging like the one we just launched yesterday, I’d love to know what it is so I can get cracking on my research. But it’s gonna be hard to top the genuine thrill of finding out a knee-jerk opinion held for 10 years was so very wrong, and that a movie most widely appreciated and perceived as intentional, or unintentional, camp was, in fact, so much better, and so much more just camp, than I would have ever allowed myself to believe before.Dennis Cozzaliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01954848938471883431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137112374222560822006-01-12T16:32:00.000-08:002006-01-12T16:32:00.000-08:00Wonderful testimonial, Dennis. I wish more critics...Wonderful testimonial, Dennis. I wish more critics had your courage and honesty.<BR/><BR/>You asked:<BR/>"Peet, did you see the movie when it was first released in the Netherlands? What do you think of Showgirls?"<BR/><BR/>Yes, I did see it when it came out. From Dutch interviews at the time, I knew Verhoeven was playing it relatively straight. Mind you: in the case of Verhoeven, "relatively straight" means way over-the-top--but in the authentic, gloriously vulgar spirit of Vegas. (As you noted before, subtlety has never been Verhoeven's thing, intelligent and likeable as he is. When Paul goes for something, he <I>really</I> goes.) I could clearly recognize his love-hate relationship with the States at the time, but especially the smart-ass dialogue of the script put me off.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps strangely enough, the bathtub scene always kind of made sense to me. Nomi is playing the sex goddess she wants men to think she is. The girl's showing off, because she believes it will get her further in life. This is her one-way ticket to the American dream.<BR/><BR/>Like most people, I was disappointed to see Verhoeven and Eszterhas stick to the FLASHDANCE formula. In retrospect, the choice seems logical: what better cinematic model is there to portray the the hard-sell glamour of the American Dream?<BR/><BR/>I should see this film again...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137093961301503292006-01-12T11:26:00.000-08:002006-01-12T11:26:00.000-08:00Y'know, I've never seen "Showgirls," but it always...Y'know, I've never seen "Showgirls," but it always seemed strange to me that it could be as bad as it was made out to be, especially once I saw "Starship Troopers," with its wonderful off-kilter sense of humor and dark undertones. Guess I'll have to join the club and watch it now. Thanks for a terrific piece!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137090545603083192006-01-12T10:29:00.000-08:002006-01-12T10:29:00.000-08:00Dennis, a quick note to add my congratulations on ...Dennis, a quick note to add my congratulations on another excellent essay, one that's timely and, holy smokes, high-profile. Dude, you're only two clicks from <A HREF="http://www.oregonlive.com/weblogs/madaboutmovies/index.ssf?/mtlogs/olive_madaboutmovies/archives/2006_01.html#104738" REL="nofollow">the Oregonian</A>!<BR/><BR/>I remember the hubby being caught up in the hubbub at the film's u.s. theatrical release, and I remember sitting that one out. I'm afraid I'm sitting out the anniversary orgy as well. Ah, but it's just darn swell to be able to live vicariously through the eloquent likes of you and Thom. Cheers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137071227854569222006-01-12T05:07:00.000-08:002006-01-12T05:07:00.000-08:00Terrific, open-minded, searching.I loved it, Denni...Terrific, open-minded, searching.<BR/>I loved it, Dennis.girishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05079328617099035797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137043392336558712006-01-11T21:23:00.000-08:002006-01-11T21:23:00.000-08:00Rock and roll, welcome to today's club.Rock and roll, welcome to today's club.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137035896302798092006-01-11T19:18:00.000-08:002006-01-11T19:18:00.000-08:00This was excellent. My entry was a loud, emphatic ...This was excellent. My entry was a loud, emphatic "NO" to the movie but you make your case fascinating. I especially love the point about their makeup. I never thought about it, but by putting the showgirls' cleopatra liner, eye glitter, striped blush and everything else in your lap, Verhoeven makes you confront the otherworldly aspect of a stage appearance.The Sirenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13587505433284584391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137028198513128442006-01-11T17:09:00.000-08:002006-01-11T17:09:00.000-08:00Holy smokes, Batman! Excellent article!Holy smokes, Batman! Excellent article!Uncle Gustavhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08501032829800803300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8795280.post-1137027631577805732006-01-11T17:00:00.000-08:002006-01-11T17:00:00.000-08:00Above. Beyond. Wonderful addition to the Showgirls...Above. Beyond. Wonderful addition to the <I>Showgirls</I> blog orgy. Change-of-heart stories warm my loins.Eric Hendersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01730423919177553813noreply@blogger.com